A conversation with a non-Dispensationalist, initiated by this post which asked if Paul taught about fasting.

A conversation with a non-Dispensationalist, initiated by this post which asked if Paul taught about fasting. I post it here because I believe it contains valuable information for people who are learning to study the Word and who are seeing the need to rightly dividing the scriptures.

REACTION:

This is part of the problem with Dispensationalism — we have the clear teaching from Jesus Himself that fasting is an essential part of spiritual life (not to mention unambiguous historical records of periodic fasting being normative going back to the very earliest days of Christianity), and then Dispensationalists come up with excuses to disregard it all.

RESPONSE:

My post does not forbode fasting. It simply informs that it is not an obligation, nor a necessity, nor a means, under grace.

Benching dispensationalism, I do want to bring attention to how you suggest that what Jesus taught applies to us. It is important to know that the Bible tells us clearly that Jesus taught under the law (Gal.4:4; Rom.15:8) and that his earthly ministry and teachings were addressed to Jews only (Matt.10:5-6; Matt.15:24). When Jesus called men to follow him, it was a call for Jews to follow his example and pattern of living. It was an example of living under the kingdom he was about to set up (Matt.4:17). This is not the example we follow today because we do not belong to that earthly kingdom. We belong to the heavenly kingdom (Eph.2:6; 2Tm.4:18), a different part of God’s whole redemption plan (Eph.1:10; Col.1:20).

The Lord gave Paul a new pattern and example for us to follow (1Tim.1:16). We follow the example that Paul set in his life and doctrine (1Cor.4:16; 1Cor.11:1; Php.3:17) which is the model of grace, not law. Thus, when it comes to holydays, observances, diet, fasting’s, washings, feasts, giftings, signs, and Jewish customs, none of these have spiritual significance for us. They do not increase our faith and they do not make us more pious or effective in ‘religion’ or in relationship with God.

Paul tells us that we do not know Christ after the flesh (his earthly ministry) and that this old way of living has passed and a brand-new way of living has been determined for us (2Cor.5:16-17). Furthermore, Paul instructs us to live and preach Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery (doctrine) that was given to Paul by the risen and glorified Christ (Rom.16:25-26).

These commands of Paul are as valid and important to us today as what Jesus taught to the Jews in his earthly ministry. Paul tells us that if any of us think ourselves to be spiritual, that we should acknowledge that the things that Paul writes to us are the commandments of the Lord (1Cor.14:37).

Although the things I mention above are typically taught by ‘dispensationalists’, it is not solely dispensational, but rather, it is absolutely Biblical and relevant for all of us, for our learning and application.

REACTION:

God incarnate Himself told us “When you pray… When you fast… When you give alms…” Not if; when. And He never started His sermons with “For the next couple years…” He included in the Great Commission “….teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you…” — with no expiration date.

The Apostles recorded the Gospels because they believed the words and actions of Christ were relevant; not just of historical interest. The whole nonsensical heresy that none of the Bible matters except a few of the epistles didn’t even get invented until the 19th century.

RESPONSE:

The following is not typed in any form of admonition. Rather it is in a humble spirit that I implore you to look at what the scriptures below ACTUALLY say. Just put aside all you know and have been taught by others, and JUST LOOK at what the verses say. Please know that if you catch on to what they say, it will truly be a turning point in your understanding of God’s Word. I cannot make you see or understand scripture. That only happens when you really take a look at what the verses say and open your heart to believe them.

I quoted many verses in my reply above but let me put some scriptures into this reply. I implore you just to read them and see what the Word of God says,

Jesus earthly ministry and teachings were addressed to Jews ONLY (Matt.10:5-6; Matt.15:24)

Matt.10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matt.15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Yes, Jesus is our Lord and Saviour. I have no doubt in that, but, in his EARTHLY ministry, he was NOT speaking to Gentiles. He hardly even ministered to Gentiles. Why? Because his prophetic purpose was to save Israel so that they could be a light and salvation for the Gentiles. The scriptures above clearly say he came for the Jews. If you turn a blind eye to this, then you are taking scriptures that are not addressed to you and you’re making a false doctrine of it.

Jesus taught under the law (Gal.4:4; Rom.15:8)

Gal.4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Rom.15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Jesus came to redeem Israel. He was born under the law and ministered by that law. He was a minister of the circumcision. We are Gentiles. We are the UNcircumcision. If we receive Jesus' instruction, it means that we need to put ourselves under the law in order to abide by them. Doing so will kill the Spirit of Grace that we are actually supposed to live under. Forget about ‘dispensational’ jargon, and simply look at what scripture is saying. We are a new creation (2Cor.5:17), released from the law by the death of our Saviour, Gal.6.

The Lord gave Paul a new pattern and example for us to follow (1Tim.1:16).

1Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Paul is our apostle, Rom.11:13. We do not place ourselves under what the 12-apostles proclaimed. If you are to apply the Word of truth, you follow the instructions of Paul. This is a clear divide from what we are taught under Israel’s doctrine. We divide here not because man says so, but because it becomes absolutely necessary. If one does not divide, you end up with contradictions and confusion, which is what we see so prevalent in the modern church today. Rightly dividing is not a man-made concept, but a scriptural concept that is confirmed by Paul, 2Tim.2:15.

2Tim.2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Let’s continue below…

We follow the example that Paul set in his life and doctrine (1Cor.4:16; 1Cor.11:1; Php.3:17)

1Cor.4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1Cor.11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Php.3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

We do not know Christ after the flesh (2Cor.5:16-17)

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

The revelation of the mystery (doctrine) that was given to Paul by the risen and glorified Christ (Rom.16:25-26).

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest,

The things that Paul writes to us are the commandments of the Lord (1Cor.14:37).

1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Jesus spoke to us through Paul, giving the apostle of the Gentiles, a whole new mystery doctrine for our application. This is the doctrine we need to receive and apply today.

I truly hope that you will take these scriptures and go and study them. It will bring you to the point where you will need to acknowledge that one must rightly divide them from the Old Testament and from the gospels. The two programs are mutually exclusive. You cannot mix them or blend them. It's one or the other. Follow prophecy and law today and you place yourself under the letter that kills. Follow Paul's mystery and grace doctrine and you place yourself under the liberty of the Spirit of God. I leave this with you.

REACTION:

The Apostles did not teach this. The General Epistles were mostly written after the Pauline Epistles, so clearly St. Paul was not the bringer of a newer message superseding Christ’s (like Mohammed claimed for himself) and abrogating the authority of the Twelve. We know from history that all the Apostles were leaders in the Church, not just Paul. If Christians were supposed to stop listening to Christ and to the Twelve, no one noticed until the 19th century.

To virtually all Christians in history, the very idea that the words of Christ kill, but those of Paul give life would sound like blasphemy.

Dispensationalism is a new idea, and we know what St. Paul said about that (Galatians 1:6–10). And it’s misinterpreting what Paul’s Epistles say, and we know what St. Peter said about that (2 Peter 3:16).

RESPONSE:

Jesus and the 12-apostles did not teach what Paul taught because they were commissioned to teach the earthly Kingdom doctrine to Israel. Similarly, Paul was not commissioned by Jesus to teach the Kingdom to Israel, but the revelation of the Mysteries, a new doctrine specific for a new body of grace believers to which Paul was the progenitor (1Cor.4:15). The two cannot be mixed because we are dealing with different ministries for a different purpose towards different people groups.

To be honest, I’m not at all concerned with ‘dispensational theology’. I do not define my knowledge under the label of Darby or Scofield, nor any other theological groupings that men have created. All I’m interested in is what the Bible says, and what I get from its pages is that one needs to separate out the two programs, which is clearly what Paul instructs Timothy to do, which is not new idea from a century ago, but a scriptural truth that we are advised to apply in order to be workmen, approved unto God.

If we continue to dialogue, we will end up talking in circles. I believe that I have provided more than enough evidence in scripture to justify my views. If you choose to take some time and study these references for yourself, opening your heart to what the scriptures actually say, it will speak for itself and reveal some incredible revelations to you that will change your views and life, as it did to me.

I bid you adieu.