Insights into the messed up 'Modern Denominational' view of Salvation (incl. the Olive Tree)

Insights into the messed up 'Modern Denominational' view of Salvation

Below is a comment on one of my posts regarding salvation by grace through Christ alone. After the comment, I reply with my answer, rightly divided.

COMMENT:

If people listen to the gospel that you preach, in which people are saved by grace alone, they would never be saved. Anybody can just narrate passages, but teachers should first learn before teaching. On a little side note before the shocker, Paul blatantly tells the Gentiles in the church that just as the Israelites have been cut out of the Olive tree, so can they, if they do not continue in His goodness. That means it is possible to NOT continue in His goodness, which he says will result in being chopped off! There are many more versus like I’LL SAY I NEVER KNEW YOU, and I’LL SPEW OUT OF MY MOUTH, and I WILL BLOT YOUR NAME OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, and many more.

Now for the shocker, for so much of Christendom who walk around, thinking that they just have to believe in what Jesus has done for you and there is nothing you need to do. FIRST YOU MUST GIVE UP YOUR LIFE. YOU MUST PICK UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW HIM. YOU MUST BE FIRST BAPTISED INTO HIS SUFFERINGS THEN YOU CAN BE BAPTISED INTO HIS GLORY. YOU MUST BECOME A LIVING SACRIFICE, YOU MUST GO THROUGH THE FIREY TRIAL. YOU MUST NAIL YOUR FLESH TO THE CROSS.

Only when you have done this will the Spirit of God raise you up. When the carnal man is gone then the new man is born. For those that are still carnal cannot inherit the KINGDOM OF GOD. The carnal mind is enmity against GOD.

TO THOSE WHO OVERCOME WILL RECEIVE A CROWN, WHO OVERCOME WILL BE SEALED, WHO OVERCOME NOW, IN THIS LIFE, RIGHT NOW. The ones that have eyes to see, ears to hear, the ones that walk in the Spirit, because they have been born through FIRE. They no longer see with carnal eyes or hear with carnal ears because they have died, they have put them to death, crucified them. They been through an agonising, painful ordeal and have persevered in casting out everything that offends GOD. They have plucked out their eyes, they have chopped off their hands. ARE YOU HEARING WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY TO YOU!

THIS IS THE NARROW PATH, THIS IS THE ONLY WAY, THIS IS TRUE SALVATION. THIS IS WHAT JESUS GIVES YOU POWER TO DO. NOT IN YOUR STRENGTH BUT THROUGH THE SPIRIT. HE GIVES YOU THE POWER TO OVERCOME. NOW!!!

This utter surrender is what is missing from your message. Only those who truly LOVE GOD will allow this process to happen because they understand how wretched the carnal/worldly self really is. They utterly despise this world and the world despises them because they shine a light on everything that opposes GOD.

BEHOLD THE KINGDOM OF GOD HAS PREACHED TO YOU TODAY!

MY REPLY:

I understand the view that you have. I have been saved for 45 years and held a similar ‘modern denominational’ view you currently express. The problem is that the ‘modern denominational’ system does not rightly divide the scriptures and tends to mix everything together, severing the distinction and purpose of the TWO programs of God, which is Israel (under prophecy) and the Body of Christ (under mystery). When this happens, it changes the proper interpretation and context of scripture, producing confusions, contradictions, and ultimately, a false doctrine. When I started to understand the importance of right division, 2Tim.2:15, and applied it to my Bible studies, it was as if blinders came off my eyes. The Word, for the first time, really opened up and started to make sense, and when one keeps prophecy and mystery separate and distinct, everything in scripture falls into place.

The Olive Tree

So, in light of the above, this passage about the Olive tree in your first paragraph, does not support the doctrine that grace believers can lose their salvation. Let me explain.

To understand the Olive tree analogy, one must apply right division and interpret it in mind of the TWO programs in God’s greater redemption plan. The context applies to the dispensational progression of Israel (the circumcision) and the Gentiles (the uncircumcision). Paul is not referring to individual Gentile people being grafted into the tree but overviewing how the Gentile nations have temporarily been put into that place of privilege that Israel once held. Paul continues with the warning that they should not become boastful and arrogant, as God will one day turn His attention back to Israel who will hold that privilege again. In other words, God’s grace is upon all men today for salvation through the cross of Christ, but this grace will come to an end, when Jesus comes to snatch up the Body of Christ in the rapture. The context is not on individuals as you interpret. It is not that the grace of God comes to an end for the salvation of that individual. At the rapture, God’s attention turns back to Israel as He starts to graft in the natural branches again into the Olive tree during the Tribulation and Millennial Kingdom. It is here where the wild branches can be cut off again.

Regarding your example verses to support your views, as you quote, “There are many more versus like I’LL SAY I NEVER KNEW YOU and I’LL SPEW OUT OF MY MOUTH and I WILL BLOT YOUR NAME OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE and so, so many more”,

All these examples are verses that pertain to the Prophetic program of Israel who will inherit the earthly kingdom. It is in this program that the Kingdom believers can be blotted and spewed out. Kingdom believers have to prove their faith with works as James instructs in his epistle, as well as endure to the end of the Tribulation or their faith. It is incorrect to apply these versus to the Body of Christ as we are not in the Kingdom program. This is the danger of not separating (or dividing) correctly between these two unique and distinct programs in God’s redemption plan. When you blend these programs together things get murky. There needs to be a clear cut of separation between the two.

Now for the shocker

Your shocker is no shock at all. What is a shock is that the church is still so confused by all this. Its so sad to see how the church has blinded the minds of their laymen. It’s a typical scenario that Paul strongly reproves in Galatians. The Galatian believers got saved by the grace gospel but were corrupted by Judaizers who placed them back under the law of circumcision. This is so prevalent in the church today where laws trump the simplicity that is in Christ, and where the letter of the law is taught more than the spiritual curriculum of growth in Christ by the mystery doctrine.

Have you taken a close look at your list of “YOU MUST…”

• FIRST YOU MUST GIVE UP YOUR LIFE.
• YOU MUST PICK UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW HIM.
• YOU MUST BE FIRST BAPTISED INTO HIS SUFFERINGS THEN YOU CAN BE BAPTISED INTO HIS GLORY.
• YOU MUST BECOME A LIVING SACRIFICE, 
• YOU MUST GO THROUGH THE FIREY TRIAL.
• YOU MUST NAIL YOUR FLESH TO THE CROSS.
• Only when YOU HAVE DONE THIS will the Spirit of God raise you up. When the carnal man is gone then the new man is born.

Frankly, I cannot see that anyone will come close to being saved if this is the requirement for salvation. If we cannot even obey the 10 commandments, how in the world will this list of conditions be met???

The problem with this is that you are adding works to what Christ did on the cross. You are saying that the cross is not enough and that over and above trusting in the cross, we need to also fulfill all these conditions.

When do scriptures like this then become valid;

• Rom 3:21-22  But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;  (22)  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
• Rom 4:5  But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 
• Gal 5:3-4  For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.  (4)  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
• Rom 11:6  And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 
• Gal 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 

You are clearly mixing up law with grace. I say it again, the two programs are distinct. They cannot be blended together. They must be kept absolutely separated to avoid confusion and false interpretations.

There is only one condition for salvation today. It is to believe in the cross of Jesus. When we trust in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, we are saved. God’s own heavenly decree states that when we trust in His Son alone, He nails our sins to the cross and FREELY imputes the righteousness of His Son upon us. 

Consider this verse,

Rom 8:29-30  For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.  (30)  Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

When we believe in Jesus Christ and place our trust in Him, we are justified through Christ. Having been justified, we have the promise of glorification. Notice the promise. "Whom he justified, them he also glorified". Our salvation is sealed and settled when we choose to believe in Jesus Christ. This is God's work. It is God's decree. It is His standard. We have no say part to play in this, barring to believe in Jesus.

Likewise, there is no need for adding works of our own into this decree. Our justification is already absolute (permanent, complete, and irreversible). This is clearly laid out in Romans chapters 1-5.

Rom 3:24-28  Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:  (25)  Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;  (26)  To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.  (27)  Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.  (28)  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 

If we had to do the, “YOU MUST…” list you provided above, then every one of us that might just make it to heaven can boast saying, “Well, look what I achieved!. I made it. I earned this right!”. If this is what people would say in heaven….then that would not be heaven, but just another ego-filled destination! To Christ ALONE be all the glory.

When the carnal man is gone then the new man is born.

This is not scripturally correct. The Bible does not teach that the new man is ‘born’ only AFTER the carnal man is gone. It is contradictory to what Paul writes in Romans chapter 7, where Paul writes how the carnal man wars against the spirit (the mind of the spirit of the new man). The carnal man will NEVER be gone while we still live in the flesh. This is the whole reason for us being changed at the rapture/resurrection. Sin will never be defeated in us until we have our new glorified bodies. Until that day, we war against the carnal mind by being renewed in our mind through studying the Word, getting the Word within us so that it can influence our mind, our thoughts, our speech, and our actions.

Let’s read what Paul says. I cannot say anything more clear than what is expressed below.

Rom 7:18-8:4  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.  (19)  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.  (20)  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.  (21)  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.  (22)  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:  (23)  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.  (24)  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?  (25)  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.  (8:1)  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.  (2)  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.  (3)  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:  (4)  That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So, we overcome the flesh by walking in the Spirit, which is simply giving ourselves over to obedience to the written Word living and working within us. Paul calls this, obedience of faith, Rom.16:26. This is walking by faith and in accordance with Gal.2:20-21. Notice what Gal.2:21 says,

Gal 2:21  I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. 

Frustrating the grace of God is to disregard the workings of the written Word within you (acquired by reading and studying the Word regularly), and digressing back into laws and rules of self-works which brings condemnation (which is death to the functioning of the Spirit of God within you). Romans 6 is all about dying to the flesh and the laws that work within it, so that you can start to operate in the functional life and understanding of the Word of God within you. While you operate in the context of law, that spiritual life will NEVER be able to operate.

Enduring and overcoming

Finally, the rest of your statement, from paragraph 4 to the end, has all to do with the Prophetic (or Kingdom) program for Israel under the law. All these statements like,

• TO THOSE WHO OVERCOME
• have been born through FIRE
• have plucked out their eyes
• have chopped off their hands
• THE NARROW PATH

…are all statements regarding the inheritance of the earthly Kingdom program.

These statements are spoken to Jews who have need to endure through the Tribulation, in order to come through it and inherit the Millennial Kingdom. The whole ‘sermon on the mount’ or ‘Beatitudes’ of Matthew chapters 5 and 6 is all to do with the constitution of the Millennial kingdom. If Jews surrender their faith in their Messiah, they place themselves under the reign of the Antichrist. If they do not endure, if they put their hand on the plow and look back, they are not fit for the Kingdom as they are effectively rejecting their Messiah.

The grace of God in this dispensation is that Jesus Christ has endured for us. Jesus has done the work on our behalf. He has paid the price which we owed God. He has died for us so that we can have life. If Jesus did the work for us and paid the price to redeem us, then how will God reject that perfect work and cast us in hell. That would declare that the cross of Christ and His death was NOT sufficient payment to redeem us. God would effectively be throwing the cross aside and disregarding the torturous death His Son went through for us. What in this world can you and I do to save ourselves, other than simply trusting in Jesus Christ. Do you really think that we can make it by doing our own deeds of righteousness, or trying to take what Jesus has already done for us and claiming the glory of it for ourselves.

Conclusion

Let me end with one simple truth that will sum up everything above. This is God’s will for us in this grace dispensation.

1Tim 2:4  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 

God wants us to get saved by trusting in the cross-work of Jesus (1Cor.15:1-4). Thereafter, God only wills one thing for us, “that we come unto the knowledge of the truth”. We are to study the written Word of God, rightly divided. We are to get the Word of God within us, understanding it in the right context, allowing it to change and influence us, allowing it to form Christ within us, and allowing it to renew our minds. Paul’s 13-letters are our curriculum. They constitute the doctrine that you and I should learn and apply in our lives. Paul’s letters are the mystery doctrine that belongs to the Body of Christ and is distinct and separate from the rest of God’s redemption plan to fix both heaven (by the Body of Christ) and earth (by Israel).

When you make a choice to start rightly dividing the Word, and you start to study the Word in this light, you become an approved workman who understands and applies the Word of God correctly. All other interpretations, according to this verse, become false interpretations of the Word of God and result in the corruption of the Word of God by workmen who are not approved to handle the truth.